Jen Mueller on Sports and Communication
Season 2, Episode 6
Summary:
"A lot of stubborn days made a pretty good career." - Jen Mueller
Hanging out with the guys is just part of Jen's day to day. As a sideline radio reporter for the Seattle Seahawks and a Seattle Mariners television broadcaster on ROOT Sports, Jen Mueller is charged with getting insights and perspective from some of the world's best athletes in a matter of seconds.
On today's Champions of Risk episode, Jen shares how she has mastered the art of asking good questions to be able to get players to reveal their personalities and perspective on key plays. Hear how her role as an intramural football referee improved her communication skills and how she teaches those same skills to businesses. Her love of talking also sparked her company, Talk Sporty To Me, which offers keynotes, workshops, and courses on how to have better conversations and ask better questions. Jen demonstrates how working a sideline is similar to effective leadership. Learn communications tips and how she entered a life of sports on today's episode.
Links:
Ask Better Questions video series
Transcript:
Michael Kithcart:
Hello, I'm Michael Kithcart. I'm a high performance business coach who left the corporate world to help entrepreneurs and sales leaders become unstoppable. Welcome to Champions of RISK podcast where we examine the many aspects of risk, so we can all face uncertainty with more strength and courage together. My guest today has my dream job. The thing that I wanted to be when I was growing up, and Jen Mueller is it. She is a sports broadcasting veteran. She's the Seattle Seahawks sideline radio reporter, and she's also an Emmy Award winning producer and part of the Seattle Mariners television broadcast team on Root Sports. In addition to her work on the sidelines, Jen launched Talk Sporty To Me in 2009. And what a great name for a company, can't wait to talk to you about that. She provides a unique twist on business communication, based on her time in locker rooms and expertise in one on one conversations. Jen is the author of three books and recently launched an on demand video series, Asking Better Questions. Jen, welcome to the podcast.
Jen Mueller:
Thank you for having me.
Michael Kithcart:
I'm so excited to talk to you, as I said, like you are living living the dream. So we're gonna want to dig into just how dreamy that that role really is.
Jen Mueller:
Yeah, and all kinds of the stuff that happens behind the scenes, it isn't nearly as glamorous as people think. But yes, yes, we can dive into that one,
Michael Kithcart:
That that'll be great. So give us a sense of I read that you loved talking as you were growing up. So how did your love for talking lead you to sports versus other things like becoming a radio personality or a news anchor?
Jen Mueller:
Well, what I really wanted to be was a teacher, because growing up, that's the only real profession that I knew about. And I knew that a teacher stood at the front of the room. And they talked a lot. And I knew that they were teaching, I always liked the concept of being able to teach somebody something and go back. And at that time, it was grade papers, right. But what I was really doing was I wanted to see if they got it. And I didn't, I didn't put that together until I started my own company and started watching this happen from the stage that I like that aha moment that an audience gets. It's the same feeling I get when you connect with an audience on TV, or when you hear from a radio audience that they were listening. And that just helped unlock what happened in the game or that they felt so much closer to the player. But I went from wanting to be a third grade Lutheran School teacher to wanting to try broadcasting because of a high school guidance counselor who literally said, Jennifer, you like to talk a lot and you're not afraid to talk in front of people. Have you ever thought about broadcasting? And I thought it was the most absurd suggestion? because who knows a broadcaster I was 16 years old. How do you even get into that field? And I thought, you know, actually, she might have a point. I did some informational interviews, I decided to go to college and pursue broadcast journalism. And sports was a natural fit. Because I'd always been an athlete, my brother grew up, we played sports together, it was just kind of a family thing. And I thought it sounded like a lot more fun than talking about news and politics. The one caveat to that being there were not that many women doing sports at that time. And there were zero guarantees that sports would accept me as a broadcaster, right, anywhere. And so my backup plan was to do news or politics. But thankfully, I landed on sports that all worked out, because it really is way more fun talking about games, even a losing game than talking about like real stuff in life. Sports is way better.
Michael Kithcart:
Yes, I agree with you. 1,000%. And there's nothing more fun than just dabbling and dropping in a few sports analogies in every situation. It never gets old to me. So I'm curious out of that. What was maybe the biggest defining moment, when you realize that, Yeah, I really am going to be a sports broadcaster. This is gonna work for me.
Jen Mueller:
You know what I think you just go through everyday thinking, the next day is going to be really good. Right? The next thing is going to be good. I took a really unconventional path to be a sports broadcaster. I went to school, I have a degree I got my internships. But I ended up my very first job while I was still in college, I was a sports producer. And there was no guarantee that I was going to get on air, which is what I eventually wanted to do. But I thought if a station is going to offer me a full time gig before I graduate from college, it's hard to turn down a paycheck and benefits without knowing what else might actually happen. So it was truly on me then to keep pushing the issue of Hey, would you let me try to shoot this story and to shoot a stand up so that I could intro a guest the We had on the program that I was producing. And I did that behind the scenes for about eight years before I was ever on TV. So for me, there was just a belief that the next day was going to be a great day and that somebody was going to see me do it the next day. I will say that as a freshman in college, when I was an intramural flag football official first week that I was an official, I realized that I wasn't going to quit. And I think that was about the same time I realized I wasn't gonna quit broadcasting. until somebody made me, I knew that if I started something, I had the capacity to finish. And unless somebody was going to force me to stop, there was no reason for me to talk myself into that. So there was a couple of different things there. But I think I'm just stubborn, stubborn, it's just at some point in time you look back, and you go, Well, a lot of stubborn days made a pretty good career there.
Michael Kithcart:
I would say so. And I will just interject and say that I wanted to be a sports broadcaster in college. And I follow that same route, like I did the internships in newspaper and TV and radio, all in sports. And I listened to the people who told me I couldn't do it. And I'm older than you, which is no excuse I what my point in sharing it is that I'm so glad that your approach to it maybe made all the difference. I think I was looking for permission, and you were like, screw it.
Jen Mueller:
Right, which that attitude can kind of get me in trouble sometimes, you know, like, that makes me a troublemaker in some ways. But I do think it's a healthy attitude to adopt. As somebody who always played sports, right? To me, it's just another form of competing. And that's the way that I always looked at it, and not necessarily competing against anybody else. But what are my expectations? And what are my standards? And can I do better, because when you were toiling away in a sports department producing which, as a producer, you are writing scripts for somebody else, you are essentially running the show, but nobody ever knows who you are, until it's a terrible show. And then you get called into an office and you get chewed out, you are toiling away, essentially unknown behind the scenes for so long, that I just the competition became Okay, if nobody else notices. Well, I noticed that that script is better today than it was yesterday. Right? Well, I noticed that I edited that piece of video using the skills somebody taught me last week. So it was a game that I would play with myself to stay engaged and to stay motivated when I didn't think anybody was paying attention to what I was doing.
Michael Kithcart:
There's there's a lot of good life lesson in that approach. Jen, I really commend you on that. Let's not over Look, the fact that you were an intramural flag football referee, also an all American like, right? One of very few people.
Jen Mueller:
When you say that, there are going to be some people listening to this podcast that are like, What is she talking about? Michael, we should tell them that I grew up in Texas and I went to school in Texas and football in Texas at any level is big, including intramural flag football. And so it was a big deal to be an official and I traveled around the country and I worked in tournaments, and I was an all American flag football official. I was the third female in the history of the sports earned that award. And I became a high school football official. As a result, I spent 10 years calling High School games as well.
Michael Kithcart:
Oh, my goodness. So how is refereeing football games, like leading an executive team through one of your workshops?
Jen Mueller:
You know, at first, I would say there's not a whole lot of similarities outside of some egos that you're dealing with. But if I pulled back a little bit, there's a lot of communication lessons that come through when you're a football official. And it's everything about how you show up. And I learned that very quickly. First of all, I'm the only female that that's out there officiating most of these tournaments. And certainly when I stepped on the field as a high school football official, most of these guys had never seen a female that was working their game. And so I was going to get a lot of questions, I was going to get challenged a lot. And it all came down to how I responded and how I acted. So it was the confidence I show just in standing on the field. It was the smile I had on my face. It was not grimacing if I thought I missed a call. It was not second guessing myself and picking up a flag if I thought maybe the coach was right when he was chirping in my ear. It was making sure that you didn't turn around and incite an already emotional sideline in situation and taking a step further. To the field where you couldn't hear it, instead of going back into that noise and engaging with them. And I think when I work with corporate folks, now, I use a lot of the same skills in the same lessons, right? It is about showing up and everything that you are communicating from the look on your face, your body language to the actual words that you are saying, it is knowing how to manage different personalities, I'm working in a communication space. And that is really subjective. I know that from being on TV, not everybody likes my style, and that's okay. But when I'm working with corporate professionals, I have to keep in mind that everybody has their own individual way of communicating. It's not right or wrong. But it's making sure that all of those voices get heard. Without me just thinking, I'm the one that's in charge of this. And you are going to do this my way. Because if you show up in a corporate setting like that, or on a football field, it is not going to go very well for you. And they think that there's some preventive officiating that comes in so often, if you're on a field and you see a guy that's, you know, starting to encroach on the line of scrimmage, you see a guy that he it's a little questionable, but I don't need to throw the flag, you're going to use preventive officiating, you're going to say something in between place, right? I think in a business space, we need to make sure, particularly when we're teaching or coaching people, it's not about the gotcha moment in the end, right? It's helping you and coaching you along through the process. And that's another similarity where I've never wanted to get people in that moment where they feel super uncomfortable. There shouldn't be a surprise, right? We should have had some conversations going along. So that there's dialogue there, there was always dialogue on the field when I was an official, respectful dialogue. And there's always a matter of dialogue and respect, when I'm leading workshops and giving presentations and listening to different points of views and different experiences that all make leaders who they are.
Michael Kithcart:
I love the parallels that you drew with that, because it's it's so true of the conversations in between and that having that element of surprise be there, right? Nobody should be surprised. And I love that piece, too about all the voices being heard, because you are a sideline reporter for the Seattle Seahawks. Okay, is there any coach that's better than Pete Carroll. And we just call it?
Jen Mueller:
I don't I don't think there is I certainly couldn't cast my vote for a coach that is better than Pete Carroll. I have really enjoyed working with him since he got here.
Michael Kithcart:
I have done presentations on Pete Carroll, and his coaching approach and his introduction to mindfulness and everything. So it just like he warms my heart. Tell us a little bit about that. Because just even hearing you be an official, and I wouldn't think that there's a lot of conversation going on in between plays and stuff like that. So that's fascinating. Give us a sense of what it's really like being on the sideline, because you have a very specific role to play in communicating to the audience during those games. So can you give us a sense of what's game day like for you,
Jen Mueller:
Game day's the most fun of the week. I mean, that's you're in the middle of everything. And it does go back to me being a football official, I don't need to be on the field playing, I just want to be on the field and in the middle of the action. But as a sideline reporter, I'm looking for very specific things. Because I know the guys in the booth, the ones that are calling play by play and doing color commentary. They're seeing the game from up high, they're seeing the game develop. I'm seeing reactions to things. I'm watching body language, I know my guys well enough to know when something is wrong, when they're upset. I know what's different this game versus two games ago when the same thing happened. But you didn't respond the same way. I've watched in practice to know what should have happened and then recognize that it didn't happen the way that it was supposed to. So a lot of it for as much as I'm watching games and I chart every single play. I have my own system, I have my own note cards that I make up so that I can track what questions I want to ask after the game. But if you're watching at home, and even if you're watching in the TV booth upstairs, when that game goes to a timeout or a commercial break, that's when you're getting up and you're doing things and that's when I leaning in to listen to hear what's happening during that timeout conversation. I'm trying to figure out what's different and what's new. When they do come to me for an update, I get 15 seconds max. So that means that I'm also trying to figure out everything that I'm seeing or hearing, how would I sum that up in two to three sentences so that it makes sense, it stands alone and I can convince them that I have something that adds to that broadcast and you're trying to do this while not getting run over by not getting hit with a long snapper, who is consistently practicing on the sidelines, and just kind of knowing where you are among all of these very large and very athletic people.
Michael Kithcart:
Can we go back to the you get 15 seconds piece, because if all of us had to condense our key points into 15 seconds, team meetings would be a lot shorter, they'd be a lot more clear, there's probably an efficiency model that you could build from this from your 20 years in sports broadcasting. How do you train yourself to get it down to the specifics?
Jen Mueller:
So 15 seconds equals approximately three sentences. And we're not talking about long run on sentences, we're talking about pretty basic, simple sentences, right? So that's just a standard kind of TV broadcast measurement. So that's what I'm working with. The first thing I'll do is think about what's obvious. And then I'll take that out of the equation, because what I don't want to do is waste my 15 seconds on that no-duh information. I'm going to tell you what's interesting, and I better have a very specific point. That's interesting to say, right? It's not that so and so got hurt. It's that, you know, Jamal Adams limped off the field to plays after making that critical stop. And it's important, because the defense has given up 200 yards without him in the game. That's an example of what I would say versus Jamal Adams looks like he's in pain. He's having a hard time leaving the field. And we don't know what his status is. Does that make sense? Now sometimes, that's all the information I'm going to have. But I'm always looking for context and perspective and to weed out that that no-duh information, that information that you already know, because you've been listening or watching,
Michael Kithcart:
I know that you also have spent a lot of time with the Seattle Mariners, and you spend time with them, and spring training. And maybe I just have this in my mind, but I have like 90 seconds in my head, right, like a, so now you have 15 seconds on the sideline, 90 seconds to maybe interview and pull out a memorable moment or quote from these athletes. So you just shared kind of what goes into some prep just to get to game day. I mean, you gave us just a little, I know just a little snippet, but give us a sense of how much prep actually goes into getting really good at getting quality information out of somebody in less than two minutes.
Jen Mueller:
You know, I think part of it starts with, it's understanding where the team is at the moment, right. So my day always starts with reading newspaper clips, we get them sent to our email inboxes. So I'm always reading that teams provide us with game notes and stats and trends. So you're reading that. So first of all, it's just knowing what it is that you're talking about. The second thing is knowing the person that you're talking to. So a lot of what you see during an interview is because of the foundation that gets built in a locker room or clubhouse during the course of the week, the month or the season that I spend around these guys, because when I only have 90 seconds, that's going to equal about three questions. And that's a walk off interview, that's pretty standard, I need to ask the question that gets to the heart of that story. Without like, you know, playing this game of 20 questions and hoping that I get something and understanding their personality types. Are they introverts? Are they extroverts? Will they talk about themselves? Will they only talk about their teammates? How do you address this when I know they won't talk about themselves, but everybody in the stadium and everybody at home wants to hear about the home run that they just hit. And so it's understanding that and then just like during a football game, I'm writing down potential questions as the game goes on. The game winning play might have happened in the first inning. Right, the game winning hit might have come in the third inning. And so I'm always making notes. And then when we get to about bottom of the seventh eighth inning, now I'm really formulating those questions, and I'm writing them out and I'm saying them out loud, to make sure that they sound the way I think they're gonna sound and be that I can actually say them without tripping over them on live TV, right? And then I'm just watching to see how that last inning and a half plays out to see if anything changes. That's kind of a long and a short answer to how it works. But it comes down to the relationship that you have with the person that you're talking to.
Michael Kithcart:
Very applicable to business which is why you also have a business called Talk Sporty to Me and you really do transition, what you've learned on the sidelines and in the locker rooms into the business world. So share with us a little bit about how Talk Sporty to Me came about and how you help business people through sports.
Jen Mueller:
Well, it was an accident. I am the accidental entrepreneur and This is gonna come as a huge shock to everybody who's been listening, I was just looking for another opportunity to talk. I mean, that's really what this came from. And I was asked if I could help a group of women at KPMG, who some of them knew sports, but couldn't figure out how to translate it into their business conversations. And there was an entirely different group of women who weren't comfortable talking sports with their knowledge base. But here's what all of the women in this particular group noticed their male counterparts were entertaining potential clients at sporting events, those potential clients became clients, their male counterparts ended up making more money because they had larger books of business, even though their male counterparts had the same number of years in the business, the same education, the same degrees, all of these things. And so to then they identified that sports was something they weren't utilizing to its fullest. So that's where this started. And I really hadn't thought about how this was showing up in business. And then after giving the presentation, I realized, they're not the only ones. It's not just women, sports fans are sports fans every day of the week. And so if you are just using sports to talk about stats and scores, you're missing some bigger opportunities to connect. And that's what I help point out for business professionals. In addition to the conversation skills that you and I have just been talking about. It's not just effective communication on a sideline. It's effective communication in a business environment. And just bringing a fun twist to things that are important. When we set out to have those interactions that come from a place you might not have thought. But now every time you watch a game, you listen to a sideline reporter or you listen to an interview, it's gonna reinforce all of these things and make you a better communicator as a result. Yeah, that is fantastic. And you do help businesses not only become better at their communication skills, but how to do it well during a game. From your perspective, what makes us bad conversationalists. In the beginning? That sounds like a real indictment on people, Michael. But I think that's an interesting place to start the conversation. And here's what I think it is, we underestimate the importance of the little interactions during the course of the day. We prepare for the big conversations, the one where we're meeting a client, the one where we're moving somebody through our sales funnel, the one where we're asking for a raise or promotion, we prepare for those and we strategize those really well, what we fail to see are all the little interactions during the course of the day, and how they build on top of each other to create those relationships. So we're not as intentional so we don't spend time preparing for them. So we don't really have anything to say. And then when we don't have anything to say, and that interaction becomes boring, or we think that it's a waste of time. We don't do it. And so I think if we were to step back into realize how important that is, you know, when I meet a player for the first time, the very first thing that sets the foundation for how we're going to work together is me saying hello. And I am very intentional about who I say hello to and how I say hello, and how many times of saying hello, it takes before I introduce myself, this is a plan process. Because look, these guys do not trust easy. And they need to figure out that they can trust me that they should trust me so that we can have some real conversations. If I skip the Hello, if I miss a chance to acknowledge something good that they did in practice. That's all on me, right? And I might not get a single thing back from that player. He might not respond for two weeks. And then when the wall drops, and the guard gets let down. I've got everything I ever needed in the conversation. But if we were that intentional about who we said hello to and how we acknowledged people 15 seconds at a time. Remember, that's just three sentences, we would be so much better off his conversationalist and with our business relationships.
Michael Kithcart:
Absolutely and better humans. When you think of that, okay, just real quick, how many different ways are there to say hello,
Jen Mueller:
Oh, there's a lot of different ways to say hello. Sometimes you say hello, and you use the player's name. Sometimes you just say hi. Sometimes you say, Hey, my name is Jen. I'm the sideline reporter. You and I are going to do interviews together this year. I just wanted you to put a name to the face, right? I'll say hi to you tomorrow, that sort of thing. Sometimes I walk up to a player. I call this the buddy system. When I'm working in the locker room. Sometimes I'll walk up to a player I'll say hello to one of my guys. Somebody that I've talked to for years and I'll make it seem like it's an accidental conversation between me and let's say Bobby Wagner, he's a linebacker for the Seahawks. But the guy sitting next to him is brand new, and I'll make it seem like I just casually turned and said, Oh, you're sitting there. Well, you can weigh in on this conversation too. And then when they weigh in on the conversation at the end, they'll say, Oh, hi, my name is Jen, I should have done that earlier, we'll be doing some interviews together. Because I'm the sideline reporter. They think that this is all just like super casual off the cuff. I plan that conversation. I plan that introduction, I planned that Hello, before the day even started.
Michael Kithcart:
I love it. That is so fantastic. I do just have to ask, I don't care if you get asked this question every single day. But one of your keynotes is how to work a, quote, unquote, locker room. And having had a few instances myself, I'm just wondering, Jen, what is like the most memorable incident that you just can't erase, you can't unsee it.
Jen Mueller:
You know, there's a lot of large linemen that work in locker rooms, and you can't unsee those things, I have counted more ceiling tiles in more locker rooms and club houses than probably anybody else. I will also say that a locker room following a loss is not exactly the place that you want to be right. There's a lot of really large, really angry men that are throwing things like they're throwing their sweaty gear, they're throwing all of their tapes that might be bloodied and gross. They're still spitting into things, I do want to be clear, my guys take good care of me in the locker room, they are not trying to hit me with things. But after a bad game, or after a loss, especially when you're on a road trip. And we have to pack stuff up and go. It's just it's just a mess. Like imagine walking into a 19 year old boy's room times 53. Like just that's, that's how many guys are in there. And it's it smells.
Michael Kithcart:
Come on, just call it. It smells,
Jen Mueller:
It smells, like, it smells, you know, they don't really want to talk to me, they see me coming, there's not a whole lot of places they can hide. So most of the time they suck it up and do the interview.
Michael Kithcart:
What's the best way to avoid you?
Jen Mueller:
They'd have to go into the shower, or if we're at home, they would hustle up, they get dressed and they'd sneak out the side. But I do think that's actually a really interesting point. So I do give the guys particularly after a loss, particularly if they're a player that let's say they had a huge drop, right. And if they would have caught that pass, that would have been the game winning touchdown pass, or they missed the tackle and the opponent ran for a 50 yard touchdown or in baseball, they made the error, I do give them a chance to say no to my interview. Because for as much power as it might seem that I have, when I have a microphone in my hand. That doesn't mean that people have to talk to me. And if they don't want to talk to me because they can't for whatever reason, sometimes they don't trust themselves to say the right thing during an interview, I said, that's fine, I'm gonna come back to you on a different week, there is no point in trying to force somebody to talk to you if they don't want to talk to you. Right, I got 53 other guys 52 other guys in an NFL locker room, I got 24 other guys in a baseball clubhouse, I can go find somebody else to talk about the thing. And that if I start a fight with somebody who doesn't want to talk to me, that doesn't do any of us any good.
Michael Kithcart:
When you're up in the stands, and you're up in the suite. And you're entertaining clients. This is another workshop that you offer too, there's an art form around having conversation during a game that you help people with. I never thought of that. What are we paying attention to? When we get to go to games again, someday soon?
Jen Mueller:
We know. That'd be awesome. We'll all appreciate entertaining folks at games. You know, part of it is understanding that they are there to watch and experience the game, right. So we don't want the conversation that we're having to overshadow their experience of the day, what we should be looking for is different ways to connect. Sports has built in follow up opportunities. That's what's great if you're trying to cultivate a relationship, If you're trying to build your sales funnel or your relationship prospecting, whatever it is you want to look at, you should be able to find at least five connection points off of that game that you're watching. It could be the food in the suite, it could be if you're watching a football game, it's the halftime entertainment. It's the actual score in baseball, it's you know, whoever was throwing out the first pitch, it's whoever won the game. It's whoever had the home run. And there should be something that allows you to follow up a week later, a month later, and six months later, based on that experience. So if you're not pulling those pieces out of a conversation, and it doesn't need to take long sports conversations can be done in 30 seconds or 90 seconds. And that's about all the time you really want that conversation to start off as now if you have a great sports fan and a great conversationalist and they keep going by all means entertain them and keep that conversation going. But what we're looking for are short conversations that lead to follow up conversations so that we can have the bigger conversation later.
Michael Kithcart:
Later, that being the operative word that is great, I am covering a couple of the different workshops just because I love the different ways that you help people get better at communication overall. And I've taken your Asking Better Wuestions, which, of course, was no pressure at all now asking you all these questions.
Jen Mueller:
It's just meant to be food for thought.
Michael Kithcart:
It's great, everybody, everybody will benefit from this course, we'll put a link in the in the podcast notes. So let's just give him a little sneak peek, then they'll just really want to take the course. So the worst question that you could ever ask someone is what because why?
Jen Mueller:
Well, in my line of work, line reporter, it's how do you feel? Because the answer is usually obvious. And no guy that I've ever met tells me about his feelings, not even my husband. So there's that. But I would also say, an open ended question just for the sake of asking an open ended question. And I realized that conventional wisdom says that everything should be open ended. And the reason we say that is we think it gives the person we're talking to the most options for answering like the widest berth possible to answer however you want to. And what it actually does is cause a lot of confusion. Because if people don't know where you're trying to take that conversation, they don't want to get it wrong, and they don't want to disappoint you. And so you're probably going to get a non answer instead of a real answer. And it goes against all of that conventional wisdom. But you cannot ask an open ended question that's not focused and expect to get a good answer.
Michael Kithcart:
That applies to sales, to anything, coaching. After I took your course, too. I was like, Okay, I'm gonna apply that to my coaching practice and this one, And what is the most overrated question that is asked?
Jen Mueller:
How are you? I think, I mean, I and I use that just because it's, again, depending on your line of work, right? How does it feel falls right up there with me? And also, what were you thinking? I mean, imagine if somebody came up to you, after a bad day at work and said, hey, what were you thinking? during that two o'clock meeting, and you had sideline reporters ask coaches that all the time? How do you fit like, and I get part of it is the way that you deliver it, right, the body language, and it's the relationship that I have with you. But if you just take that question, and ask it without any context, without any relationship, you've just put somebody on the defensive, and that doesn't go very far in building a relationship with somebody. But I also think, how are you is a pretty overrated question, because it rarely leads you to the answer that you're looking for. Because most of us haven't stopped to think about what our real objective is with that question, right? We don't really know what we're looking for, we're hoping that somebody is going to fill in the blanks and give us something good to talk about
Michael Kithcart:
Right and not prepared if they actually go in detail and share it and overshare perhaps. So that that'll probably prevent all the future, how are you's?
Jen Mueller:
Well, no, I will say this, how are you is still going to be used? It's hard to take that completely out of your conversation style, I would say if you're truly looking to start a conversation, you have to be more intentional than that. On the flip side, if somebody asks you, how are you, you should have a success statement ready to go. And I talk about that a lot. That's a concept that I shared years ago, and that I've used personally because I was trying to guide the conversation directly to where I wanted my boss to go the GM of the company to go Pete Carroll to go I wanted them to know exactly what I was doing and how they could follow up with me in that exact conversation. So if you're going to get how are you make sure that you've got a response that's better than fine or good or great.
Michael Kithcart:
Yes. Okay. And then why are wacky and Goofy questions, not always the best icebreakers?
Jen Mueller:
Because they catch people off guard, and they're out of context. And they're just weird, right? Like, if you can't come up with an answer to the question on your own, if this question is asked out of the blue, then it's not a great question. The number of times I have sat and tried to answer like, what kind of tree would you be if you could be any tree? I don't know when I don't care. That doesn't relate to anything. But again, we think that we're going to spark this really interesting conversation by throwing out the craziest question we could think of, and it happens, you know, like, hey, if you could only eat one food for the rest of your life, what would it be? I have no idea and if I'm in the middle of a different train of thought, you're not going to get a good answer. So we need to make sure that whatever question we're asking, we have have an answer for on the spot. And if we're going to put somebody on the spot, there's got to be some sort of context that comes around that. Right? So if you were getting ready to take people out on a hike in nature, you might say, look, since we're heading out in nature, I want you to get into that frame of mind of being in all the trees. What kind of tree would you be? Right? It works better in that situation than it does in your noon meeting where you're just trying to get people to talk to each other.
Michael Kithcart:
And I giggle and I smile at all of this having facilitated more than my fair share. And I'm sure that I have been guilty of this. I love it. This is why we all need to take Jen's Ask Better Questions workshop. So we're going to give you that link. I said that, sorry. But I want to go back to the sports broadcasting for just a moment before I let you go. You've been in the industry for 20 years. What's something that you've always wanted to do and have yet to have accomplished it around sports broadcasting?
Jen Mueller:
That is a really hard question to answer. Because I never thought I was gonna get to do all the things that I've already done. When you're told no. So many times when you're told you can't do it, women don't do sports, you'll never make it. You'll never have a career, you might have a job in sports, but you'll never have a career. It never dawned on me that I could be an NFL sideline reporter. It never dawned on me that I'd be working at a regional Sports Network covering the Mariners as a result of covered a perfect game. I've covered three no hitters, I have a Super Bowl ring with the Seahawks. I've been to two Super Bowls. I've covered some of the biggest games in the history of both of those teams. And I can't even imagine what could possibly come next. Because I haven't thought of what it would be yet it might be play by play and some flip. That was never something that was on my radar, because who would have thought I'd be doing sidelines much less play by play. So I I'm waiting to see what the next great thing is. And if the next great thing is standing on a stage with an audience of hundreds or 1000s of people listening to my stories from inside a locker room, but having it helped them in their business relationships or personal relationships, I would be okay with that, too.
Michael Kithcart:
It's a pretty great road you have been on the play by play piece, I think is really interesting, because I want to get your perspective in 2020 in particular, right? There have been some pretty great milestones of women in the NFL. This year, we had a game this season where there was a female official and two female coaches on the field. That's pretty spectacular. Beth Mowins doing play by play for a major network. What do you see in the direction of this? Where do you see the possibility,
Jen Mueller:
I see a path for lots of other people to follow that didn't exist before. And that's a big stumbling block. I told you, my career was certainly non traditional. And how I got there, nobody could have mapped this path out I couldn't even figure out a path because there wasn't really anybody to follow. And I didn't recognize the challenges that posed or how much I would have appreciated that until just recently and being able to watch somebody like Beth Mowins. And there was a sports broadcaster in Houston where I grew up that I just loved. And she did rockets pregame and postgame shows and I just loved her. To be able to see somebody do what you think you want to do. And then kind of backtrack, right and fill in your own path. That is really powerful. Now I'm going to say this, if you want to work in sports, you have to be just a little bit crazy. Now. This is men, and this is women, right? So if you're a little bit crazy, if you don't mind working nights, weekends and holidays, all the time, every year as part of your full time gig, this is the gig for you. And now that you can see people and women and all of these roles, you know what's possible, and you can figure out your career path from there. And if you're just that right that it crazy. And if you're just that right amount of stubborn competitor, you can do just about anything you want to in sports these days.
Michael Kithcart:
Yeah, that's, that's great. I love that you're highlighting the qualifications and also that you're showing young women, that it's possible and can be done. You are part of that group of women. That group that still kind of small got to say, but you are letting other young women see themselves in what you're doing. I just think that that is fabulous. So thank you so much for taking time to share your journey, your expertise and how you are helping businesses with their communication. Jen, how can people find you because they need to know about you if they don't already
Jen Mueller:
well Talk Sporty To Me is a good place to go- that is the website that's the social media handles and if you want to send me an email directly it's [email protected]
Michael Kithcart:
Thank you, Jen for being a guest on the Champions of RISK podcast.
Jen Mueller:
Absolutely any time.
Michael Kithcart:
And thank you all for listening to this episode of the Champions of RISK. Hey, if one of your goals is a commitment to personal and professional growth this year, check out my Champion You Group Coaching. Each month other professionals just like you meet virtually to learn new high performance topics to support their goals. We track we pack in trainings, small group discussion and coaching all in one hour. Discover for yourself how Champion You Group Coaching can support you and achieving your own version of an unstoppable 2021. This is the last month to sign up for the introductory offer price is going to go up in March. So check it out and sign up today. The link is in the show notes.
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